JF146 first impresssions

[Johan217]

First of all, thank you for creating this. Flying the BAe146 just became even more fun. I really enjoy watching FSFO doing all the system tests

I am noticing a few oddities.

1) Preflight: T Ref °C on the TMS gets set to an extreme temperature (88 °C) - OAT on these flights was 9 °C

2) After Take Off: TGT °C on the TMS gets set too high (890 °C, which I think is more than allowed with MCT). Normal values are 820-840 °C I believe.

3) After Take Off: Air switchover not correct: FSFO turns off APU Air but does not turn on ENG Air

It also looks like not all Ice Protection switches are set before start, but that could have been me mucking about.

One request: it would be really nice if FSFO could start the clock. It's the one thing I always forget to do myself

[Matthew King]

Hey buddy!

I will confess to having very limited information regarding the BAE 146 operations. I had to collect a lot of documents and watch a lot of videos to ensure we're using proper operations.

1. I'll check this out; it should be set to the outside air temp
2. This is based on Just Flight tutorial video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=njIB2hABlSY&ab_channel=JustFlight If you go to about the 4 min mark, they define the proper TMS values
3. This flow I have and Just Flits tutorial video (10 min mark): www.youtube.com/watch?v=njIB2hABlSY&ab_channel=JustFlight Does not state to turn off the Eng Air...just the APU Air

If you have some other documentation, I will defiantly implement!

Matt

[timvs]

Had my first quick try this evening. During the pre-flight flows I noticed there was quite a long countdown before the FO actioned some items, such as starting the GPU and APU. CTRL - ALT didn't seem to do anyhting and I couldn't see anything in Settings to influence the timing so I did it myself! Probably smething I'm not understanding it was my first look.

[Johan217]

I have this Mahan Air SOP for the 146/RJ
drive.google.com/file/d/1zY5IJ5KxGzCMo248uys4Zn9oy04NF6-Z/view?usp=share_link

And there is this series on Pilotbrary
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKEybvo562LugratF9mxcQmSRmCf2vbIK

1) T Ref/OAT not being set: could this be a Simbrief issue (I had some problems with corrupt METAR)? Last flight seemed to be working OK.

2) TGT setting of 890 °C: is definitely too high. Normal setting for climb is 840 °C, MCT limit is 857 °C. Of course this only comes into play if the user selects TGT on the TMS. FSFO selects SYNC (without TGT) it seems, which is also fine.I suggest having FSFO set TGT to 840 or just leave it at whatever setting the user has selected. If possible, FSFO should probably select SYNC mode earlier, at Thrust Reduction Height, rather than as part of the After Take Off checks.

3) Air switchover: FSFO should turn Eng Air ON but doesn't - has happened on every flight up to now.

4) Ice protection: AUX & L VANE + BATT switch should be ON (After Start checklist)

5) Yaw Dampers not set (Preflight) - has happened on every flight up to now (the small switch on the center console).

Disclaimer: I am no real life pilot and certainly not on the BAe146. So anyone in the know, feel welcome to correct.

Attachments:

[paul_a]

Nov 5, 2022 13:08:02 GMT -5 Johan217 said:

I have this Mahan Air SOP for the 146/RJ
drive.google.com/file/d/1zY5IJ5KxGzCMo248uys4Zn9oy04NF6-Z/view?usp=share_link

And there is this series on Pilotbrary
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKEybvo562LugratF9mxcQmSRmCf2vbIK

1) T Ref/OAT not being set: could this be a Simbrief issue (I had some problems with corrupt METAR)? Last flight seemed to be working OK.

2) TGT setting of 890 °C: is definitely too high. Normal setting for climb is 840 °C, MCT limit is 857 °C. Of course this only comes into play if the user selects TGT on the TMS. FSFO selects SYNC (without TGT) it seems, which is also fine.I suggest having FSFO set TGT to 840 or just leave it at whatever setting the user has selected. If possible, FSFO should probably select SYNC mode earlier, at Thrust Reduction Height, rather than as part of the After Take Off checks.

3) Air switchover: FSFO should turn Eng Air ON but doesn't - has happened on every flight up to now.

4) Ice protection: AUX & L VANE + BATT switch should be ON (After Start checklist)

5) Yaw Dampers not set (Preflight) - has happened on every flight up to now (the small switch on the center console).

Disclaimer: I am no real life pilot and certainly not on the BAe146. So anyone in the know, feel welcome to correct.

----

Same issues confirmed.

[Johan217]

I'm not sure about the Yaw Damper... last flight I did it was activated OK by FSFO, so there maybe something else going on. I'm pretty sure now that the OAT issue is caused by corrupted Simbrief METAR data.

A few other small things:
Pre Flight
- XPNDR set to TA/RA in pre flight flow (should be STBY - but doesn't matter in the sim)
- COM radios not turned ON

Before Start
- In reality, TMS should be OFF during engine start (but in the sim it doesn't seem to matter)

Engine start
- FO appears to be saying "engine cut out" but maybe I am mishearing it

[paul_a]

Again i can confirm both these.

Transponder - I fly online and was trained to turn it on just as i am rolling onto the runway normally with my before-takeoff checks. not sure if it is a real thing or not i am not a real pilot was just how i got taught to me.

Com boxes - These do not get switched on.

[Matthew King]

Nov 6, 2022 7:43:19 GMT -5 paul_a said:

Again i can confirm both these.

Transponder - I fly online and was trained to turn it on just as i am rolling onto the runway normally with my before-takeoff checks. not sure if it is a real thing or not i am not a real pilot was just how i got taught to me.

Com boxes - These do not get switched on.

Hey Paul,

Concerning transponders, that a very old rule. Today, most airports and aircraft are equipped with ADS-B. Also, if you fly on VATSIM, the controller will tell you turn on Mode C well before you hit the runway; most controllers require you to turn if on when you push from the gate; the latter mimics ADS-B operations.

Here's some information regarding ADS-B:

Departures:
Select the transponder mode which allows altitude reporting and enable ADS-B during pushback or taxi-out from parking spot. Select TA or TA/RA (if equipped with TCAS) when taking the active runway

[Matthew King]

Keep posting observations; I will get them added to the next update.

[paul_a]

Nov 6, 2022 12:52:45 GMT -5 Matthew King said:

Nov 6, 2022 7:43:19 GMT -5 paul_a said:

Again i can confirm both these.

Transponder - I fly online and was trained to turn it on just as i am rolling onto the runway normally with my before-takeoff checks. not sure if it is a real thing or not i am not a real pilot was just how i got taught to me.

Com boxes - These do not get switched on.

Hey Paul,

Concerning transponders, that a very old rule. Today, most airports and aircraft are equipped with ADS-B. Also, if you fly on VATSIM, the controller will tell you turn on Mode C well before you hit the runway; most controllers require you to turn if on when you push from the gate; the latter mimics ADS-B operations.

Here's some information regarding ADS-B:

Departures:
Select the transponder mode which allows altitude reporting and enable ADS-B during pushback or taxi-out from parking spot. Select TA or TA/RA (if equipped with TCAS) when taking the active runway

Not really shocked it was over 20 years ago i was trained. i fly IVAO.

[Johan217]

A few more things that I'm not sure about or don't seem to be working as expected:
- Alert cabin crew before take off/landing: using the in-built checklist, this is done by pressing the Cabin Call button, which in turn sets the "Cabin Secured" placard on the center console and locks the cockpit door. Is there a way to make FSFO do this too?
- Descent: Incorrect air switchover again. ENG AIR should remain ON and APU AIR OFF as long as the APU is not running (FSFO only starts the APU after landing)
- Descent: It seems FSFO turns off the TMS, but not sure. Normally it should be in SYNC or DESC (I prefer SYNC)
- V speeds: FSFO seems to be using fixed values. Is there a way to make it use the values from the flipchart?

[Matthew King]

I am going to try and address these this weekend; I hope to have the update ready by Monday evening.

[Matthew King]

Nov 6, 2022 5:38:42 GMT -5 Johan217 said:

I'm not sure about the Yaw Damper... last flight I did it was activated OK by FSFO, so there maybe something else going on. I'm pretty sure now that the OAT issue is caused by corrupted Simbrief METAR data.

A few other small things:
Pre Flight
- XPNDR set to TA/RA in pre flight flow (should be STBY - but doesn't matter in the sim)
- COM radios not turned ON

Before Start
- In reality, TMS should be OFF during engine start (but in the sim it doesn't seem to matter)

Engine start
- FO appears to be saying "engine cut out" but maybe I am mishearing it

Everything has been fixed; concerning the radios, please ensure you have SET RADIOS on via the User Options screen. I couldn't find any issues with the YawDamp. Also, the temp looks like it's entering correctly into the TMS.

[kiwi0ne]

Hello Matthew I have the same issues described above " Air switchover: FSFO should turn Eng Air ON but doesn't - has happened on every flight up to now." And also the Yaw dampers do not get turned on.
And it seems that when read for TO and pressing the Config check button, the alarm foes off and I am not sure what is not configed correctly.

[Johan217]

Check trim. The EFB sometimes sets aileron and rudder trim incorrectly.